Any sceners in CERN ?
category: offtopic [glöplog]
@helloworld: i'm afraid i don't like your POV on that. maybe it was arrogant and inconsistent of that student to ask such a question and not doing anything in that moment, but it sure as hell wasn't stupid!
(since when is viewing something from different point of views stupid anyway?)
at least he stopped a moment to think about the others, asking a very valid question. and who are you to know, that he doesn't do anything for poor people outside the lecture hall? i am a science enthusiast myself, especially when it comes to space exploration, but there is no reason at all to just close your eyes to the very evident problems of the world and simply state: "well, that's who we are, deal with it!".
you're right, there's beauty in our technological and cultural progress, but there's also this other side that you're trying to deny. and i have to admit that IMHO you're coming across a little arrogant and bitter too...
(since when is viewing something from different point of views stupid anyway?)
at least he stopped a moment to think about the others, asking a very valid question. and who are you to know, that he doesn't do anything for poor people outside the lecture hall? i am a science enthusiast myself, especially when it comes to space exploration, but there is no reason at all to just close your eyes to the very evident problems of the world and simply state: "well, that's who we are, deal with it!".
you're right, there's beauty in our technological and cultural progress, but there's also this other side that you're trying to deny. and i have to admit that IMHO you're coming across a little arrogant and bitter too...
hehe.
first, I understand what you say, and I respect it. Sometimes I like to provoke somehow. :)
(though I long ago learnt that it was nothing but a waste of energy on the internet)
My reasoning is as follows:
The one that dares put the slightest blame on the big corporation making great projects hasnt the slightest right to oppose anything to a more extreme opinion that would be: "yes you do things for the poor people outside the lecture hall, but you still care about your house, your car, your computer, you still want to learn science, you have projects for your kids, you buy them gifts, when you come home you are happy. You could always do more. How dare you? You're so selfish."
I HAVE stopped a moment. AGES ago. Well, thats untrue. It's rather something that's obvious to me. My reasoning is that if you havent made your mind clear about this whole frigging "world is unfair" issue before you're accepting to live into this society, take class in some engineering school, use and learn about expensive computers in order to get a well-paid job about it, you're just, at best, extremely childish, naive and inconsistent with yourself. At worst you're an hypocrite.
I wouldnt care in the slightest bit if these people sometimes didnt try and give moral lessons or try to make others feel guilty.
But I reckon that's just me. By this reasoning a whole bunch of people fall in this category.
And now, allow me to say that I too feel the waste and the fuckedupness of the world and that I'm not insensitive ; in fact, maybe it's because I'm more sensitive than the rest to all this, that I have this vision.
And yes, maybe came up as bitter and arrogant and that's not cool, so sorry.
let's say it was for the sake of provocation :)
first, I understand what you say, and I respect it. Sometimes I like to provoke somehow. :)
(though I long ago learnt that it was nothing but a waste of energy on the internet)
My reasoning is as follows:
The one that dares put the slightest blame on the big corporation making great projects hasnt the slightest right to oppose anything to a more extreme opinion that would be: "yes you do things for the poor people outside the lecture hall, but you still care about your house, your car, your computer, you still want to learn science, you have projects for your kids, you buy them gifts, when you come home you are happy. You could always do more. How dare you? You're so selfish."
I HAVE stopped a moment. AGES ago. Well, thats untrue. It's rather something that's obvious to me. My reasoning is that if you havent made your mind clear about this whole frigging "world is unfair" issue before you're accepting to live into this society, take class in some engineering school, use and learn about expensive computers in order to get a well-paid job about it, you're just, at best, extremely childish, naive and inconsistent with yourself. At worst you're an hypocrite.
I wouldnt care in the slightest bit if these people sometimes didnt try and give moral lessons or try to make others feel guilty.
But I reckon that's just me. By this reasoning a whole bunch of people fall in this category.
And now, allow me to say that I too feel the waste and the fuckedupness of the world and that I'm not insensitive ; in fact, maybe it's because I'm more sensitive than the rest to all this, that I have this vision.
And yes, maybe came up as bitter and arrogant and that's not cool, so sorry.
let's say it was for the sake of provocation :)
nice one then, you totally got me reacting to the provocation ;-)
and if it wasn't for some little details, your POV is exactly mine too. in my mind, i just add "fucked up laziness" to the reasons i act as i do. because despite all the injustice and disturbing knowledge i still don't do shit. (well, a little, but it really isn't worth mentioning)
and if it wasn't for some little details, your POV is exactly mine too. in my mind, i just add "fucked up laziness" to the reasons i act as i do. because despite all the injustice and disturbing knowledge i still don't do shit. (well, a little, but it really isn't worth mentioning)
aah, laziness, I know this.
well, it's the guilt one cant help to feel I dont like, and thus, the ones who try and add some of it.
And, however little you do it's always something.
In this debate one could also wonder : what will help the world the most: sweat your whole life in Africa helping a few people or build an empire, and then spend your fortune on development aid?
Heh. See the Gates fundation.
well, it's the guilt one cant help to feel I dont like, and thus, the ones who try and add some of it.
And, however little you do it's always something.
In this debate one could also wonder : what will help the world the most: sweat your whole life in Africa helping a few people or build an empire, and then spend your fortune on development aid?
Heh. See the Gates fundation.
Well, i knew this for some time now, and we actually had a protest. But i hope you guys are happy ;)
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68G3NL20100917
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68G3NL20100917
i'm possible off topic here, but here's a moment of thought:
massive research funding for large goals often gives tons of commercial spin-offs. that's positive benefit. just look at the technology that space research and modern warfare has given us (e.g. micro wave oven and gps).
big companies or large research institutions employ a wide variety of people, skills and competencies. what one perceive as "doing nothing" might be genious work to others.
massive research funding for large goals often gives tons of commercial spin-offs. that's positive benefit. just look at the technology that space research and modern warfare has given us (e.g. micro wave oven and gps).
big companies or large research institutions employ a wide variety of people, skills and competencies. what one perceive as "doing nothing" might be genious work to others.
@hcdlt:
CERN contains approx 2000 permanent people, and many scientists come for short periods. With a crowd like this i think it's unavoidable to have some people doing close to nothing, for various reasons (parasitism, and we can't expect students to be effective at once, delays on subprojects...)
Quote:
spending money on people who barely do anything (like stated on page 1 of this thread) could be spent more wisely on the project itself or even saved.
CERN contains approx 2000 permanent people, and many scientists come for short periods. With a crowd like this i think it's unavoidable to have some people doing close to nothing, for various reasons (parasitism, and we can't expect students to be effective at once, delays on subprojects...)
Quote:
spending money on people who barely do anything (like stated on page 1 of this thread) could be spent more wisely on the project itself or even saved.
Ok, i think something should be said about that quote, because it's flung around like a club. It's not that we're not doing LITERALLY ANYTHING, sitting on facebook or whatever timewaster and get paid for it. It's just that the project/assignements aren't run like a commercial project, with strict deadlines, performance reviews and whatnot you would have in corporate world. Everyone moves more or less at their own pace, some people get very easy, or even mundane projects, some students are way underutilized. That's it. You would call that bad management.
movi, self management is not bad management. but if you're the one doing nothing; i guess you should feel guilty.
in big projects, self management _is_ bad management. you can't expect everyone to do the right thing, especially when there's not much of experience...
hcdlt, i totally disagree. of course you need some kind of orchestration to ensure that e.g. a road map is followed. within such a barrier self management is excellent management (this is scalable)
I'm not the one doing nothing (I wasn't even the one that said it), so I have nothing to feel guilty of.