Compo rules clarification
category: parties [glöplog]
This question is mainly to party orgas.
When a rule at a party says something like: max run time is 5 minutes. Does that usually include unpacking time or not? I realise its party dependent and you can clear with party orgas but in general is there an accepted rule ?
When a rule at a party says something like: max run time is 5 minutes. Does that usually include unpacking time or not? I realise its party dependent and you can clear with party orgas but in general is there an accepted rule ?
auld: this would usually be a problem in regards to 4ks, 64ks, exe music and similar. Such compoes usually define a max unpacking time aswell, if the organizers want to. Eg. it is common practise that an .exe music entry shouldn't precalc more than 30 secs.
I guess that precalc time for 4ks and 64ks are a bit more "loose", since a long precalc time often results in a nice show afterwards.
Personally we use the compo-rules at TRSAC to keep people from entering stuff that is absurd in the first place :) I would not have huge problems with showing a great 4k, even if it needed a minute of precalc.
I guess that precalc time for 4ks and 64ks are a bit more "loose", since a long precalc time often results in a nice show afterwards.
Personally we use the compo-rules at TRSAC to keep people from entering stuff that is absurd in the first place :) I would not have huge problems with showing a great 4k, even if it needed a minute of precalc.
I think it's pretty obvious that unpack/precalc time should be included in the run time; after all, the executable is running.
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Torvill and Dean's 1984 Olympic free dance was skated to Maurice Ravel's Boléro. Ravel's original Boléro composition is over 17 minutes long. Olympics rules state that the free dance must be four minutes long (plus or minus ten seconds). Torvill and Dean went to a music arranger to condense Boléro down to a "skateable" version. However, they were told that the minimum time that Boléro could be condensed down to was 4 minutes 28 seconds, 18 seconds in excess of the Olympics rules. Torvill and Dean reviewed the Olympic rule book and found that it stated that actual timing of a skating routine began when the skaters started skating. Therefore they could use Boléro if they did not place their skates' blades to ice for the first 18 seconds. They timed the performance so that when Torvill first placed a blade on the ice, they would have the maximum skating time remaining.
The UK scene: abusing compo rules since 1984.
(I think the real answer is: that rule only exists to stop people taking the piss with 30-minute noise demos, and no sensible compo organiser would cut off a perfectly good demo 30 seconds from the end for the sake of some lame-ass rule. But if you do submit a 30-minute noise demo, don't be surprised if the orgas use every possible means to spare the agony of the audience, including counting precalc time in the limit.)
I've often wondered what would happen if somebody made a really awesome 30 minute long demo. It'd be criminal to stop it early, but also a total abuse of the rules, how would the orgas handle it?
Hmm.. we need to kidnap navis for 6 months to find out. Anyone have a van? :)
Hmm.. we need to kidnap navis for 6 months to find out. Anyone have a van? :)
Having watched my share of 5-minutes noise-demos/intros, I think there should be a Humans Demo-Rights Watch that prevented torture from taking place.
I mean - most festival have panic-buttons, that kills all sound and light if people stumble and fall and the physical health of the audience is in jeopardy.
I vote that all compos should get rid of time-limits and instead have a panic-button operated by some huge goon with bulging overarms. Nobody would ever booh at him ;-)
I mean - most festival have panic-buttons, that kills all sound and light if people stumble and fall and the physical health of the audience is in jeopardy.
I vote that all compos should get rid of time-limits and instead have a panic-button operated by some huge goon with bulging overarms. Nobody would ever booh at him ;-)
psonice: 30 minutes of ASD? think about the attentiondeficitdisorder children :(
30 minutes of ASD = terrorism
30 minutes of ASD music?
my god, uphold the geneva convention!
Hold on, it depends on what navis would do with a 30 minute demo I reckon. If it was a normal ASD 8 minute demo stretched out to 30 minutes, the music might be a lot better. On the other hand, if he kept the same pace as normal.. 53 mood swings in 30 minutes! That might just send amusic + leviathan to the asylum ;)
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I've often wondered what would happen if somebody made a really awesome 30 minute long demo
Its been done http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=398. Turns out that it gets fantastically boring really quickly. Plz dont let anyone do it again.
psonice, i've attended demo compos where entries were stopped after 5 minutes duration. although they were not killer demos, they were still terminated (i think they were either by nosfe or by ps).
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psonice: 30 minutes of ASD? think about the attentiondeficitdisorder children :(
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although they were not killer demos, they were still terminated (i think they were either by nosfe or by ps).
ah the tragic irony :-)
(ps I hope you are reading this)
rasmus, my entries don't usually even get shown if orgas have anything against them. dont recall any being stopped in the middle.. though i guess that might've happened somewhere
you all just wait when we get the full version of the trilogy done. not 30mins but i'm sure 25 will be enough of noise for all of you.
you all just wait when we get the full version of the trilogy done. not 30mins but i'm sure 25 will be enough of noise for all of you.
navis: out of curiosity, how would you approach a 30 minute demo (assuming you suddenly have endless free time and some reason for doing so), would you just add 22 more minutes in the same vein or would you slow the pace down and bring more progression to each scene?
slow down the pace and bring more progression. A 30 minutes bombastic demo would only bring you headaches!
I once had a thought about a super-demo called something like (for example):
ASD vs Kewlers vs Fairlight etc etc
where there would be islands/worlds, each with a different universe and feel according to the dominant group, and they would have a war - with machinery that relates to their style (particles for fairlight, strobo-guns for kewlers etc.).
The presentation of all islands and the war would take a bit of time to finish.
I once had a thought about a super-demo called something like (for example):
ASD vs Kewlers vs Fairlight etc etc
where there would be islands/worlds, each with a different universe and feel according to the dominant group, and they would have a war - with machinery that relates to their style (particles for fairlight, strobo-guns for kewlers etc.).
The presentation of all islands and the war would take a bit of time to finish.
Hmm.. a more 'film style' demo could really rule. Although a compo with lots of entries would be a real pain, guess you'd have to do it more like a film festival with screenings of the demos spread over a weekend.
All we need is a ton of time.. maybe in 30 years when we're all retired :)
Navis: sounds like a fun idea. Managing it all if the worlds are interacting would be a bitch though, how would you handle FLT firing DX particles at ASD's opengl morphing tank?
I still think there's room for a proper oldshool style megademo. A nice menu screen to choose parts, then each group submits a screen (maybe even a short demo, whatever). The whole thing could be done in newschool style, just with the oldschool menu + parts concept.
All we need is a ton of time.. maybe in 30 years when we're all retired :)
Navis: sounds like a fun idea. Managing it all if the worlds are interacting would be a bitch though, how would you handle FLT firing DX particles at ASD's opengl morphing tank?
I still think there's room for a proper oldshool style megademo. A nice menu screen to choose parts, then each group submits a screen (maybe even a short demo, whatever). The whole thing could be done in newschool style, just with the oldschool menu + parts concept.
Can't say more but your wish may come true one day (not from us though).
(btw in my scenario above we'd do all the graphics/rendering not the separate groups. So we'd "emulate" their style in opengl).
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Its been done
you can blame me/us too: http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=3758 =) it was shown in full length, and it was super boring. sorry :)
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rasmus, my entries don't usually even get shown if orgas have anything against them. dont recall any being stopped in the middle.. though i guess that might've happened somewhere
it happened at breakpoint some years ago :) (and if i recall correctly, it was discussed controversial among the orgas, with the result that it shouldnt ever happen again)
groepaz, yep, i was refering to BP
navis: ah, so a 1-group demo using the styles from the other groups? That would be interesting to see (and make.. although extremely hard to make if flt is one of the islands ;) (And the thought of you making a metalvotze island had me laughing!)
I wonder if the Breakpoint 2003 forum database is still intact - if so, an amusing discussion relating to the subject can be found there ;)
