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added on the 2019-04-22 13:15:03 by scamp  |
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When Wild prod gone Wild.
rulez added on the 2019-04-22 16:58:27 by pitapoto 
I guess that worked very well on the stream :-)
Impressive show though i didn't really like the demo running on it
Impressive show though i didn't really like the demo running on it
Some background info on the platform:
- It's 96 RGBW (32 Bit) LED stripes, 5 meters and 150 pixels each, so that's roughly half a kilometer of LED stripes
- They are controlled by an Altera FPGA running on a custom-designed PCB, driving the LEDs with up to 200 Hz refresh rate doing 800 Mhz pulse coding
- The FPGA is communicating with a ARMv7 host CPU via USB. That CPU is running the effect code, sending frame data as USB packets to the FPGA
- All of this housed inside a Viprinet Multichannel VPN Router 520
- LED stripes are powered with up to 30A @5A, which required 6mm² cables so not to burn
- To generate this we convert down 24V DC to 5V using 48 DC-DC converters. The 24V are provided by 8 600W AC-DC converters
- The total maximum output power (all LEDs at RGBW full brightness) is 4.8 Kilowatts
- Every LED stripes has power feeds from both sides, and data feed from one side, making it a total of over 800 cables we had to solder
- The total display size is 10x3,5 Meters at 300x48 pixels
- Once we had finished the platform in Bingen, it no longer did fit through the door, and we had no means to get it to Saarbrücken. We had to rent a truck last-minute
- The actual demo running on it was a last-minute party prod (as the platform wasn't finished before thursday to test on), which for the first time fully worked 10 minutes before the compo started. It's been programmed in Object Pascal. Wayfinder, the music composer, in his track could control the white LEDs directly to trigger strobo effects himself.
- We could not get the Mali "GPU" integrated into the ARM CPU to work on such a short notice, which is why everything had to be software rendering, and was only running at 30FPS. Bero is planning to support hw OpenGL in the future.
- The platform is meant to be used as a decoration element at partys. It typically will not be installed flat as it was used at Revision - it's a "foldable display". It will be used as a 10m deadly toilet tunnel to walk through, including fog, audio feedback, trying to make it next to impossible for visitors to reach the toilets at Underground Conference.
- It's 96 RGBW (32 Bit) LED stripes, 5 meters and 150 pixels each, so that's roughly half a kilometer of LED stripes
- They are controlled by an Altera FPGA running on a custom-designed PCB, driving the LEDs with up to 200 Hz refresh rate doing 800 Mhz pulse coding
- The FPGA is communicating with a ARMv7 host CPU via USB. That CPU is running the effect code, sending frame data as USB packets to the FPGA
- All of this housed inside a Viprinet Multichannel VPN Router 520
- LED stripes are powered with up to 30A @5A, which required 6mm² cables so not to burn
- To generate this we convert down 24V DC to 5V using 48 DC-DC converters. The 24V are provided by 8 600W AC-DC converters
- The total maximum output power (all LEDs at RGBW full brightness) is 4.8 Kilowatts
- Every LED stripes has power feeds from both sides, and data feed from one side, making it a total of over 800 cables we had to solder
- The total display size is 10x3,5 Meters at 300x48 pixels
- Once we had finished the platform in Bingen, it no longer did fit through the door, and we had no means to get it to Saarbrücken. We had to rent a truck last-minute
- The actual demo running on it was a last-minute party prod (as the platform wasn't finished before thursday to test on), which for the first time fully worked 10 minutes before the compo started. It's been programmed in Object Pascal. Wayfinder, the music composer, in his track could control the white LEDs directly to trigger strobo effects himself.
- We could not get the Mali "GPU" integrated into the ARM CPU to work on such a short notice, which is why everything had to be software rendering, and was only running at 30FPS. Bero is planning to support hw OpenGL in the future.
- The platform is meant to be used as a decoration element at partys. It typically will not be installed flat as it was used at Revision - it's a "foldable display". It will be used as a 10m deadly toilet tunnel to walk through, including fog, audio feedback, trying to make it next to impossible for visitors to reach the toilets at Underground Conference.
nice
nice indeed
"if you have epilepsy problems, you should leave now. if you don't have epilepsy problems, after this entry you will."
A lot of helping hands, a lot of wires. And that bee rocked the stage. BeRo, I can't help it, I like your style.
Lots of work went into this and all that, but from what I understood it was made for the company to use, and doesn't seem to be quite there with the usual "done on my free time" kind of thing that the scene ultimately is.
I was kind of worried when smoke started coming out and there were 2 big fire extinguishers in the stage as I was on the front row...
I was kind of worried when smoke started coming out and there were 2 big fire extinguishers in the stage as I was on the front row...
It wasn't made for a company - it's not a commercial project, and it is not going to be used in a commercial environment, only for scene events.
However, there is some truth to this:
Many of the people who have worked on this are employed at Nerdherrschaft, and we've used company resources. And as we don't have a clear separation between work/spare time nor fixed office hours there, one could even argue that this was done partly during "paid work time". As is the case with many scener-run companies, there is no black and white here.
But I want to be clear that this is not a commercial project, and that none of the motivation doing this production had or has the slightest intent of earning money on it, directly or indirectly.
However, there is some truth to this:
Many of the people who have worked on this are employed at Nerdherrschaft, and we've used company resources. And as we don't have a clear separation between work/spare time nor fixed office hours there, one could even argue that this was done partly during "paid work time". As is the case with many scener-run companies, there is no black and white here.
But I want to be clear that this is not a commercial project, and that none of the motivation doing this production had or has the slightest intent of earning money on it, directly or indirectly.
could've worked as an installation.
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Oh! I wasn't even aware of this. Nice :) Really impressive project!! The demo should have lasted longer though :) Wayfinder, the music composer, in his track could control the white LEDs directly to trigger strobo effects himself.
Well deserved winner.
@scamp thanks for the clarification... I hope you don't set any scene event on fire then =)
Awesome platform, not so nice content, explanations save it from detailed critique. Hope to see another production fully realizing the platform's potential.
thumbs up for the impressive effort, the demo itself isn't very remarkable though ^^
A lot of efforts but I really didn't get an idea of this entry
For all the buildup the actual effect wasn't that impressive, but still great effort. I would have liked if the thing would have flashed at full brightness to see how far it could go.
It was very bright, that's for sure :D
Now thats one A+++ energy efficient display (not)!
Thumb for the effort and possibilities, tho.
Thumb for the effort and possibilities, tho.
Really nice idea and strong execution. I do a bunch of stuff with high power LED projects so I'm interested in the technical details.
Are you using SK6812 LED strips here, or is it one of the other RGBW LED types? Did you go for CW, NW, or WW on the white element? Are they all 20mA elements?
What PoL regulators did you use to drop the 24V down to 5V? Also, what made you choose 24V over 12V?
Did you consider any other power sources for mains to DC conversion? I've been looking into crypto-mining power supplies that have huge numbers of 6-pin 12V connectors because they work out as being half the price of standalone supplies and tend to have better protection against overcurrent, overheat, and inrush current as standard.
I really liked the use of the solar panel connectors. Do you have a part number for them? Did they come pre-wired or did you have to crimp them?
What topology did you use for driving the LED data lines? Looked like maybe 48 total pairs from the way they came on during setup, although that could've just been garbage data from a floating input.
Sorry for so many questions!
Are you using SK6812 LED strips here, or is it one of the other RGBW LED types? Did you go for CW, NW, or WW on the white element? Are they all 20mA elements?
What PoL regulators did you use to drop the 24V down to 5V? Also, what made you choose 24V over 12V?
Did you consider any other power sources for mains to DC conversion? I've been looking into crypto-mining power supplies that have huge numbers of 6-pin 12V connectors because they work out as being half the price of standalone supplies and tend to have better protection against overcurrent, overheat, and inrush current as standard.
I really liked the use of the solar panel connectors. Do you have a part number for them? Did they come pre-wired or did you have to crimp them?
What topology did you use for driving the LED data lines? Looked like maybe 48 total pairs from the way they came on during setup, although that could've just been garbage data from a floating input.
Sorry for so many questions!
Leuchtbauzaun ist bester Bauzaun <3
I know it was intended to be painful to look at, but it was so in more ways than one, and this is a shame.
1. Setting up took far too long. Like, really. It wasn't fair to subject the audience to something so tedious during a compo, considering a 20-minute video of the setup would have been disqualified on the grounds of breaking the 8-minute time limit, but apparently it was considered fine because it was done live? I believe the panels could have been installed beforehand in a clearly visible location instead (on/near the right wall?) and used for more than just showing that one demo.
2. For how powerful you made it sound it sure struggled to compete with reflected light coming off the projector screen. Kilowatts mean little when the total luminous flux is nothing to write home about.
3. The demo itself was like a slap in the face after all that build-up. Which felt even more aggravating after the already-horrible Trasidio presentation which suffered the exact same problems. I actually thought you were trolling everyone.
4. "A 10m deadly toilet tunnel to walk through, including fog, audio feedback, trying to make it next to impossible for visitors to reach the toilets at Underground Conference" actually sounds like a cool and clever (if scarily hazardous) concept. But the actual presentation at the compo made it look like a "hey, here's yet another LED demo player, except with 100 times more LEDs", which is the single dumbest way to go about it. LED strip screens are nothing new at this point; they're basically inferior OLED screens. You actually have to come up with clever uses that take advantage of their modular, three-dimensional nature in order to make them worth the engineering effort, and this didn't come across at all in the compo.
(And I'd really like to reiterate that I didn't appreciate how this project stretched the compo rules—I think this should be something to look into going forward.)
1. Setting up took far too long. Like, really. It wasn't fair to subject the audience to something so tedious during a compo, considering a 20-minute video of the setup would have been disqualified on the grounds of breaking the 8-minute time limit, but apparently it was considered fine because it was done live? I believe the panels could have been installed beforehand in a clearly visible location instead (on/near the right wall?) and used for more than just showing that one demo.
2. For how powerful you made it sound it sure struggled to compete with reflected light coming off the projector screen. Kilowatts mean little when the total luminous flux is nothing to write home about.
3. The demo itself was like a slap in the face after all that build-up. Which felt even more aggravating after the already-horrible Trasidio presentation which suffered the exact same problems. I actually thought you were trolling everyone.
4. "A 10m deadly toilet tunnel to walk through, including fog, audio feedback, trying to make it next to impossible for visitors to reach the toilets at Underground Conference" actually sounds like a cool and clever (if scarily hazardous) concept. But the actual presentation at the compo made it look like a "hey, here's yet another LED demo player, except with 100 times more LEDs", which is the single dumbest way to go about it. LED strip screens are nothing new at this point; they're basically inferior OLED screens. You actually have to come up with clever uses that take advantage of their modular, three-dimensional nature in order to make them worth the engineering effort, and this didn't come across at all in the compo.
(And I'd really like to reiterate that I didn't appreciate how this project stretched the compo rules—I think this should be something to look into going forward.)
Sehr sehr geil.
Hi polynomial,
let me answer a couple of your questions:
- 5050SMD RGBWW with SK6812, so it's warm white
- We used 8x Meanwell HLG-600H-24A for AC->24V. This had been originally designed for using very long cables from the AC source to the display, which is why we went with 24V.
- For 24V->5V we used 24pcs 30A Waterproof DC 10-35V 12V 24V to 5V 150W DC Car LED Power Supply Voltage Converter Regulator Buck Module Wengao (off Aliexpress). Each 24V line was feeding three of these
- We wanted the AC/DC to be water-proof as everything else, the Meanwell converters appeared to be the best and cheapest choice
- The solar connectors are standard MC4. We just had to make sure we use good quality and specced for the 30A. We assembled them ourselves, ending up with soldering instead of crimping (the crimping tool arrived late)
- Each LED stripe is fed with power from both sides. In addition, from one side there is data. All of them end up at a custom PCB on each side. One side (in our setup the middle one) in addition to power had a SCSI connector and cable, going to our router. This way we could run 48 data lines over a single cable. The router had two SCSI connectors going to the FPGA PCB, which has a total of 96 data lines
let me answer a couple of your questions:
- 5050SMD RGBWW with SK6812, so it's warm white
- We used 8x Meanwell HLG-600H-24A for AC->24V. This had been originally designed for using very long cables from the AC source to the display, which is why we went with 24V.
- For 24V->5V we used 24pcs 30A Waterproof DC 10-35V 12V 24V to 5V 150W DC Car LED Power Supply Voltage Converter Regulator Buck Module Wengao (off Aliexpress). Each 24V line was feeding three of these
- We wanted the AC/DC to be water-proof as everything else, the Meanwell converters appeared to be the best and cheapest choice
- The solar connectors are standard MC4. We just had to make sure we use good quality and specced for the 30A. We assembled them ourselves, ending up with soldering instead of crimping (the crimping tool arrived late)
- Each LED stripe is fed with power from both sides. In addition, from one side there is data. All of them end up at a custom PCB on each side. One side (in our setup the middle one) in addition to power had a SCSI connector and cable, going to our router. This way we could run 48 data lines over a single cable. The router had two SCSI connectors going to the FPGA PCB, which has a total of 96 data lines
moozooh: Yeah, it took very long, and we had hoped to be quicker. But we only had time to test-setup this once, and the orgas who helped had never done it before. With some training we could have cut down the setup time.
The whole idea was that the display itself is the wild entry, not the proof of concept demo running on it. Would we have set it up prior to the compo, it would have been pre-released, which would have killed the surprise and also would have been a violation of the compo rules.
On future demo parties this beast will be available for others to code on as a platform, which is pretty much what you are suggesting.
The whole idea was that the display itself is the wild entry, not the proof of concept demo running on it. Would we have set it up prior to the compo, it would have been pre-released, which would have killed the surprise and also would have been a violation of the compo rules.
On future demo parties this beast will be available for others to code on as a platform, which is pretty much what you are suggesting.
Similar thoughts to moozooh, but I can't thumb this down as I have a soft spot for completely ridiculous DIY projects :) Would love to see this used as something else than just a "screen in front of a screen" and with proper content. E.g. the tunnel idea sounds nice.
Quote:
The whole idea was that the display itself is the wild entry, not the proof of concept demo running on it. Would we have set it up prior to the compo, it would have been pre-released, which would have killed the surprise and also would have been a violation of the compo rules.
Would it still be in violation of the rules if it just sat there unused until the actual compo? I find it hard to believe it wouldn't be allowed—while going for a live setup knowing it would way overshoot the 8-minute limit was just fine (certainly no-one expected it to be done sooner, right?).
I mean if it's actually like that, then it's a clear loophole in the rules, and should probably be addressed. Imagine if Trasidio was also assembled on-stage for like half an hour instead of the 7.5-minute video it was. Or if there were like five DYI projects all circumventing the time limitation like this. That just... doesn't feel right.
For me it does feel right. Wild compos should have more actual live wild projects instead of boring videos of something pretending being wild.
Trasidio might have won if they had shown their stuff live.
Trasidio might have won if they had shown their stuff live.
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I was kind of worried when smoke started coming out
If your demo does not set the compo equipment on fire you're doing it wrong.
Nice demo on a bunch of leds, with hardcore bass and cool effects and and an invite for an elite only party
you could build some kind of room with it, leds on all 6 sides scaring the shit out of those who dare to enter :D
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For me it does feel right. Wild compos should have more actual live wild projects instead of boring videos of something pretending being wild.
I agree in principle, but what's the point of the time limits for the videos then? Should they be lifted as well? Should the entire assembly process be featured as part of the compo no matter how long it takes? I'm trying to understand your reasoning here.
For the record, my take is the opposite: during the compo, you have to present your work in the agreed-upon time limits—no matter the format. If you choose to show-off the engineering processes live at the expense of the time spent showing the production payload, that's cool—but still, abide by the time limits.
Maybe live engineering should be kind of a separate track from the compos and the seminars at Revision. IIRC Assembly has had something of a workshop area for a similar purpose, and I seem to remember some of the projects showcased there being entries to the party's wild compo (I admit I am not too familiar with the specifics, though).
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For me it does feel right. Wild compos should have more actual live wild projects instead of boring videos of something pretending being wild.
So by that logic, your entry would've been boring if filmed? Surely there's something wrong with it then.
Personally the whole presentation felt like "Scamp talking is the wild entry, and then there's a LED show for some reason".
Was the smoke from someone vaping behind the big screen? Anyway fun idea, thumbs
dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum
And some cool effects.
And some cool effects.
very cool concept but not the kind that should be submitted in a compo like this. imagine 1 or 2 other teams bringing similar lengthy live prods. just have it setup before hand or on the side, maybe even make it available to code on immediately. but not a 20 minutes presentation (i'm sure the inexperienced orga didn't speed it up but it looks like you would struggle setting this up safely in less than 15 minutes)
I guess size does matter.
Der Screen ist *megageil* aber das Demo selbst ist natürlich sehr scheisse...
astounding..
Must be some sort of record in how many core compo rules can be broken (8 min showing time, binary executable) to enter a production into a compo. ;)
The build-up taking quite long time and then ending up with a demo that was probably worst of the demos in the particular compo... So as a platform pretty nice but the presentation was plain bad. Would've loved to see the more cool sounding stuff, like the intended use as a bathroom tunnel /w smoke.
The build-up taking quite long time and then ending up with a demo that was probably worst of the demos in the particular compo... So as a platform pretty nice but the presentation was plain bad. Would've loved to see the more cool sounding stuff, like the intended use as a bathroom tunnel /w smoke.
So, if you guys want to see what else can be done with this LED monster, join Underground Conference, where it will be used in a completely different and even more scary way.
https://uc9.party
https://uc9.party
@jvb I wrote about the smoke incident in the comments of the YouTube video. tl;dr: one of scamp's guys most likely bumped the hazer on stage.
Impressive undertaking.
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